Curse

TironPlyth · Jun 01, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Teams would be wiping because monks would run out of energy. Feanor, are you completely out of your mind?

Energy Denial is a desirable mechanic because it can be used as either an offensive or defensive tool, depending on the circumstances. Worst comes to worst it would either sort out the monks who weapon swap from those who don't, or change the monk meta. Monks dealt with Energy Denial while running Divine Boon or Blessed Light in the past, I'm sure they can handle it with the stronger templates available today. You also assume LC will remain as is, which while possible I doubt. I agree that if one dimensional offensive skills aren't dealt with that Energy Denial would be overly powerful, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Divert Hexes -> reduce cast time to 3/4
Weaken Knees -> reduce duration by about 3 seconds
Aura of Restoration -> 1 energy at 10 Energy Storage
Lingering Curse -> duration reduced by 7 seconds
Word of Healing -> reduce healing by 10 on conditional, 10 on unconditional
Mind Blast -> energy gain reduced to 7 energy at 14 spec.

Wouldn't this simply result in PhysicalWay becoming the dominate build, instead of the equilibrium we have now? Maybe I'm overemphasizing the hits to hexway. I agree with most of these changes (except Divert, because I feel elite hex-removal encourages rock-paper-scissors builds and pressures teams which run any hexes to run hex-overloads) but if you nerf only select builds you end up with a stagnant meta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

Also, buff Paragons. I've noticed that they almost never get changes to their skills, which is kinda sad, cause a lot of their skills suck.

There are reasons for that.

Snow Bunny · Jun 01, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TironPlyth

Energy Denial is a desirable mechanic because it can be used as either an offensive or defensive tool, depending on the circumstances. Worst comes to worst it would either sort out the monks who weapon swap from those who don't, or change the monk meta. Monks dealt with Energy Denial while running Divine Boon or Blessed Light in the past, I'm sure they can handle it with the stronger templates available today. You also assume LC will remain as is, which while possible I doubt. I agree that if one dimensional offensive skills aren't dealt with that Energy Denial would be overly powerful, however.

Fire damage would have to be addressed slightly. Just a second or two recharge on immolate and mindblast, i think, and it would be perfect, along with a nice nerf to LC and WK.

scruffy · Jun 01, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37

the obvious reply to your comment that there is too much offense in the meta for energy denial to be put in is that they would have to remove one of their offensive characters in favor of the energy denial character, its just a different style with (if balanced correctly) the same power level as every other build.

who cares if people run more defense, there are enough super offense builds in the meta right now that a couple builds that use extra defense would be refreshing

TironPlyth · Jun 01, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

the obvious reply to your comment that there is too much offense in the meta for energy denial to be put in is that they would have to remove one of their offensive characters in favor of the energy denial character, its just a different style with (if balanced correctly) the same power level as every other build.

Agreed, though some skills (Debilitating Shot, for instance) can easily be fit onto existing templates.

MaaKotka · Jun 01, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I would love to have edenial back!

Apok Omen · Jun 01, 2009, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Marksman's Wager: 10e, 12r, change to attack skill. Functionally change to: If this attack hits, you deal +10...22 damage and steal 1...8 energy. If this attack misses, you lose 5 energy.

Useless in its current form. Might as well make it into an elite Deb Shot. Really, I favor any meta that forces players to use their brains instead of skills, and edenial does just that. Monks have survived dual Esurge messes before.

MMSDome · Jun 01, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Shadowsteps need nerfing. In my land of Hero Battling this shit is way to overpowered.

kedde · Jun 01, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Marksman's Wager: 10e, 12r, change to attack skill. Functionally change to: If this attack hits, you deal +10...22 damage and steal 1...8 energy. If this attack misses, you lose 5 energy.

Useless in its current form. Might as well make it into an elite Deb Shot. Really, I favor any meta that forces players to use their brains instead of skills, and edenial does just that. Monks have survived dual Esurge messes before.

My god was that funny.

Bobby2 · Jun 01, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Just a second or two recharge on (immolate and) mindblast

This would be effing HUGE.

Bug John · Jun 01, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

maybe some buffs that wouldn't turn useless crappy skills into the new overpowered meta, even if it wouldn't solve the problems already mentioned here, it could shake the meta in a positive way

they did it for a few skills, and even if GW skill balance history is a big collection of failures (mostly because balances weren't done the right way, or done way too late), I can still hope for more

Killed u man · Jun 01, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Remove Heroes from HA and GvG, they don't belong in Player vs Player.

scruffy · Jun 01, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

how would it affect the meta if only eles could use glyph of lesser energy

God_Hand · Jun 01, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Remove Heroes from HA and GvG, they don't belong in Player vs Player.

This.

/winthread

Xyon the Greatest · Jun 01, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Just some random bitching

1. WK way too good for preventing / punishing splits.
2. LC still a tad too good.
3. Faint still last too long.
4. The VoR bar. I like that dom has a pressure build but...again it seems a little too strong.
5. Mind Blast. In light of the aura buff the 3s recharge would probably be more reasonable.
6. Ether Prism. It should have a drawback like OoS / OoB instead of an incredible bonus effect?

I don't want to see any of these skills absolutely maimed...please just balance them.

1) Agree
2) Check out Defile Flesh its 33% less healing
3) Agree
4) Holy Veil/Cure Hex
5) 4 Recharge
6) It is an elite, and it is a primary attribute only, so it is good as is, and ever thought of waiting 3 seconds before spiking?

kedde · Jun 01, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Defile flesh is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing terrible and has absolutely no relevance to lc.

Vor is still too powerful.
If anything, just remove the aoe part since it can RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up bodyblocks so badly it isn't even funny.

Squalus the Ipno · Jun 01, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

hey who would nerf min blast?.... at least change it to energy storage but not nerf it. Ele have not so many good PVP skills to use. I play ele in HB and without it my ele sucks lol. BTW i want to use all my elite skills but some are unuseless. I play always the same skill in pvp soz (i mean ele)

Apok Omen · Jun 02, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Vor is still too powerful.
If anything, just remove the aoe part since it can RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up bodyblocks so badly it isn't even funny.

Same change can go for LC. I don't care for the 33% health debenefit thing, as long as it can only target one foe.

Krill · Jun 02, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

(In regards to prism) It is an elite, and it is a primary attribute only, so it is good as is, and ever thought of waiting 3 seconds before spiking?

1. The builds prism is being used for (HA prism healer and GvG flagger) have no problem spec'ing 13/14 in ES for prism. In fact it's useful because this gives them a massive energy battery to draw from when they need it to hold npc's or help out at the stand, which can be recovered fairly quickly while flagging.

2. No it's not terribly difficult to fake out prism for usage as anti-spike or they might have to be using it on recharge anyway under pressure for energy. However, it's still pretty damn good in a lot of situations, is the only skill of it's type and instant activation.

It's the little unforeseen things with this skill. I'll give you one example, running soul binders in HA should be an easy way to get some pressure going against a sway backline with double PwK's. No problem though if you drop PwK out of prism, all damage negated.

Linkusmax · Jun 02, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

How come people don't run Debil shot anymore? Sure its linked to marksmanship now, but in the kind of build that would use it you wouldn't think it would be an issue.

We use to put out some massive pressure with a few of those in our build (4 Rangers 1 Thumper, 2 with Debil Shot + conditions, 1 with Debil Shot + RaO. and a Tainted Flesh Necro with Bone Minions to use the pet corpse and give a ready supply of Death Novas)

We had a couple of Blackouts in there as well.

Is it because of too much blocking? (note: I'm way behind in GvG as I haven't played since Nightfall's release but am trying to get a feel for PvP again before plunging back in.)

distilledwill · Jun 02, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Linkusmax, the thing is that people are much better (at least at the high end) at avoiding edenial (high and low energy sets, taking emanagement skills etc) and the debshots arent enough to be a great trouble. Thumpers are outclassed by most war builds, sword for pressure, hammer for knockdown. Also, pets no longer leave exploitable corpses.

Debshot was used on the old expert's dexterity ranger (when it gave +2 to marks and had a +33 IAS - goodtimes) but now its a little underpowered in 8v8.

In 4v4 it can be really good, in TA I often take debshot on my magebane ranger to hit a monk after ive seen him spam for a bit.